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    ANOTHER WEEK 5 CONTROVERSEY!!!

    EyesOfTheWorld
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 1:41 am

    First the facts...

    Bar Nuts 2
    @
    The Winged Buffalo 6

    A very big win to finish the 1/3 mark of the season in sole possession of 1st place at 5-0.

    Also very big that we did it WITHOUT our best player, Brian.

    Unfortunately, the night ended on a very sour note....
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 1:54 am

    OCTOBER 5th, 2011

    Interesting question of the week from a call I got last night: If the scorekeeper calls the score and the darts subsequently fall out does the score count?

    What's your answer?
    -Mark Clifford

    EyesOfTheWorld wrote:I have always heard that if AFTER the third dart is thrown, and the scorer acnowledges the darts in the board, then the darts fall out as the player is walking towards the line then the darts count. If the darts fall out BEFORE the complete turn is over, or fall out quick enough that the scorer couldn't verify the score, then they do not count. After the third dart is thrown, the darts must be stuck in the board long enough for the scorer to confirm (which should only be about 2 or 3 seconds).

    You're right, it counts. The scorekeeper has called the score which can't be done until all darts have been thrown and the score stands. Thought there might be some disagreement or at least another viewpoint...

    It's not specified in the rules, though. Don't really think it needs to be.
    -Mark Clifford


    It's funny that THIS question was asked almost a year ago to the day. Maybe the rest of the league needs to be informed of this. We had a situation tonight that mirrored this exactly.

    In the 3rd game of the final game of the night (Cricket Singles - Eamon VS Mike Mac), during the 2nd turn of the final leg, Eamon threw a 19, a 5, and a 'bounce out' 19 that landed on the floor. Eamon casually walked up to the board, picked up his dart on the floor, pulled the dart in the 5 out, and as he went to pull out the 19, it fell out. It was CLEARLY a 19, had clearly been in the board long enough for him to WALK up to the board, was in there for at least enough time to pick up the dart on the floor AND remove the other dart. ABSOLUTELY should have counted, without a doubt. There was no 'mad rush' to the line to go grab a barely dangling dart. The whole process was incredibly liesurely as the dart was DEFINITELY in there long enough for the scorer to acnowlwedge it as Eamon was pulling his other dart from the board and picking up the dart from the floor. Had Eamon pulled the 19 FIRST, instead of tending to the other 2, it wouldn't even have been an issue. Unfortunately he didn't, and apparently the 10 seconds that had gone by weren't enough for the scorekeeper (which was the AWAY team who was ALREADY down 3-5 on the night, and who have already sustained TWO 0-8 beatings at the hands of the other 2 dominant teams in the division). In any case, their whole team was ADAMANT that it didn't count. My team, (which now consists of just 2 of us, me & Eamon, because in normal fashion, everyone left after their games were over, and they knew there was no chance for an OT), vehimitley disagrees. I KNOW this 19 is RIGHTFULLY supposed to count. In any case, because, in essence, this is really a meaningless game (though TECHNICALLY it ISN'T), realistically, we've ALREADY won the match at 5-2, we're getting the WIN regardless, and even though we are completely right in this instance, I am willing to "give it to them". Complete fucking bullshit as far as I'm concerned, and absolutely bushleague, and though I protested with some F-Bombs, it was early enough in the game to allow them to cheat and us to STILL come back for the win, so ulimately I relented and backed dowm. In the end, that is exactly what happened. Eamon stepped up and shot lights out, while Mike Mac's game REALLY took a turn for the worse. Probably because one of his teammates wouldn't let it go and continued to try and have an argument with me even AFTER I agreed to let them have their bullshit call. Unfortunately, the night ended on a very sour note with a lot of bad blood, insults being exchanged on both sides, and arguments being turned away from darts into personal attacks. In the end, we won the contraversial game in question that we got screwed in and took a 6-2 victory to go to 5-0 which was great. Justice was served.


    Last edited by EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total
    EyesOfTheWorld
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 1:59 am

    The fact that the other team was scoring was a BIG deal here. Had I been scoring, this night could have turned from bad to way worse, as I DEFINITELY would have scored the 19, and as the 'official scorer', it would have ultimately been our call. This would have more than likely become an even bigger deal than it was.
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    Post  Chris on October 3rd 2012, 9:50 am

    Dave you're 100% right. Like you said it's not even like it was on the wire and fell out before Eamon could have grabbed it if he ran up and took that dart out first. Good job on the high road, myself I would have probably not shot another dart.


    Must have been something in the air last night..I got a foot fault called on me for the first time in 12 years of league darts. I shot my first dart, went to throw my second and noticed the flight was gone. OK it happens, stepped off the line..found the flight and put it back..then as I pick up my arm to throw it someone from the other team yells "FOOT FAULT! CAN'T SHOOT THAT DART!" I step off again and said "really? The flight fell off the dart and I was behind the line..are you supposed to be heckling the shooter?" Some people..and the person has been playing at least as long as I have so they clearly know better.
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 1:53 pm

    Bottom line is that the dart SHOULD have counted. Had this been a tie game and critical to our win, this thing could have gotten WAY worse. Because the match was essentially over and we had already gotten the win, I ultimately backed down even though I was right. Though we had already won the game, the FIRST tiebreaker in the division standings is total points, so it's not like the game was totally meaningless. However, as I said before, this particular shot did not 'decide the game' if you will, as was proven when we came back to win the leg DESPITE the bullshit. As for my part, yes I called it complete bullshit. I told them to fuck off and go ahead and not count the 19, but said it was bushleague and bullshit. I said if you have to cheat to win go ahead, we've already won the match AGAIN! (We are 5-1 lifetime against these guys including four 6-2 victories at our place). At that point, I was completely content to let things end. My argument was done, and though pissed, I was willing to give it to them. Unfortunately, that was just the BEGINNING of the argument. It then got personal and turned AWAY from darts with one of their team members just pushing me too far. I was called an asshole - who cares, no biggie. Then I was told I've always been an asshole, would always be an asshole, and would never change - ok, you got me there, probably a fair assessment. BUT, once it turned to "you've gotten everything handed to you your whole life, and the only reason you have anything is because mommy and daddy gave you a bar, you never earned shit" - well then now you've got my blood going. Listen, I GAVE you the no call. I was RIGHT and you were WRONG, and yet I was STILL going to allow you to CHEAT and get your way because we just beat you for the 5th time in 6 tries, we pretty much crush you guys every time we play you, we are sitting a top the division at 5-0 and you guys are BELOW .500 and fighting to stay out of 5th place, and basically that dart OBVIOUSLY means WAY more to you guys than it does us. HOWEVER, once you make this PERSONAL with a fucking CRAP statement like that, well then, now the gloves are off. No more Mr. niceguy. I called him some names, he called me some names. He told me I should quit the league and go back to Minuteman, I said I like this league especially crushing his team over and over. He told me to just "keep telling your players what to shoot at like you've done all night.", I told him that I'm the captain, and that's what GOOD captains do. He said "you should just shut the fuck up and let your team make their own decisions and shoot whatever they want, and not tell them what to shoot" I said I was the captain, this was my place and I'll do whatever the fuck I want to do, and that there's a reason we are 5-0. He told me things would be different at their place the next time around. Yada Yada Yada. In the end, I told him to just shut the fuck up and let the guys finish their match without him yelling shit every 5 seconds (which seemed to bother his OWN player WAY more than it was bothering ours.) Finally, we won the game and the match and everyone stormed off all pissy. Just a typical night at darts I guess. Evil or Very Mad
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    Post  Chris on October 3rd 2012, 2:13 pm

    Yup, dart counts. No bones about it. I bet if it was them it would have been a different story..I don't know the players but just the way the situation usually plays. And maybe he meant you got given a business so you should give him a couple of free wins? Please.....haha

    Not sure why you can't tell a teammate what to shoot for either, but makes more sense if the guy doesn't know all that well on his own. Haha I bet you beat them that game too

    I would have complained more about my incident but then again I'm lucky I was allowed to remain in the bar all night..especially since we only had 6 players.

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    Post  Chris on October 3rd 2012, 2:31 pm

    Hell, reading this again the only somewhat plausible defense would be the scorekeeper didn't look at the 19. Now that said, as you told the story at least 10 seconds elapsed from 3rd dart throw to the fall out..so if the keeper didn't see it there is no excuse except maybe too busy pounding a beer, watching the TV, or something like that..

    If I got this call for a MMDL match I would have said the exact same thing you did about the rule..period..and clearly so did Mark.
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 3rd 2012, 2:49 pm

    The dart didn't fall out while the shooter was at the line. The dart didn't fall out as the shooter walked to the board. The dart fell out AFTER the shooter picked up his dart on the floor, AND pulled the 2nd dart out of the board. This was about as clear cut as it gets. The scorer definitely saw that it was in the 19. He was almost giddy that the thing fell out at the last second. Eamon didn't even realize that the scorer didn't even give him the 19 at first. He was walking back to the line and I said "We got a 19". Eamon turned around looked at the scoreboard, saw his 19 wasn't marked, and said yeah, one 19. Scorer said "it fell out". I said it fell out AFTER the turn was over while he was pulling his darts. Scorer said it doesn't matter, if it falls out it falls out, doesn't matter when it falls out. I said it definitely DOES matter when it falls out, and if it falls out after the fact while the shooter is pulling his darts, it does count. Scorer said the rules say if it falls out it doesn't count period. I said that is absolutely NOT the rule. Then things went on from there.
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    Post  Chris on October 3rd 2012, 3:43 pm

    I bet if it was him shooting against you he'd want you to stand there for 3 minutes hoping a dart would fall out right? Man, some people....

    I read the other thread and while I agree with Mark you don't necessarily have to have a written rule for every little thing, seems like this one you probly do. It's the same kind of crap when people say if you drop a dart over the line you can't throw it..right....
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    Post  MetalRulz on October 9th 2012, 1:01 pm

    Can't wait until tonight... I'm sure there will be even more controversy. affraid affraid Shocked Shocked drunken drunken Arrow Arrow Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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    Post  EyesOfTheWorld on October 9th 2012, 4:04 pm

    No worries. The troublemaker on your team quit after week one anyway. Rolling Eyes

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