Show me the MONEY!!!

MMDL has almost 475 teams at $150 a pop. That's OVER $70,000 in collected cash. Pretty sure the shirts and plaques don't come anywhere NEAR $70,000. Question is WHERE THE HELL is this money going to? Does anyone know what AD's and Board members get paid? Personally, I think it should be ZERO. This should be a VOLUNTEER thing. Why should you be PAID for help running a "fun" league. Your "payment" should be the feeling you get from helping run a League that you love. Like a charity or community service. Nobody gets PAID for that shit. Not worth your time? So don't fucking do it. I'm sure that there are plenty of people with a ton of free time to do this shit for free. With all that extra cash, you could then start handing out some real prizes or even some cold hard cash!

This from the same person who doesn't believe in charity..haha. That's what I love about you Dave, you're always good for a laugh!

Oh, I believe in charity. Just not the charity of ABA. You ain't out there curing cancer buddy. I could do your shit in HALF the time FOR FREE! If you love the game, and you love the league, you should donate your time to it for NOTHING.

Nah, I'm saving the manatees instead. But I find it funny, you don't believe in charity..and say what you want I remember the post about "unemployment? Screw you get a job" or something like that.

If you felt that way you should have showed up at the capt's meeting and ran for the job..you just might have had no opposition..

Ummm exactly.... If you want money get a fucking job. The MMDL is not a job, it is a 'fun' dart league. There's no cash payouts, and the awards are minimal. I'm just wondering where all the money goes. Can't you get volunteers to do that shit for free? Retired folk, people with tons of free time, etc... I don't work to help lazy fucks just sit around getting high and go to the beach. You need some cash, come mow my fucking lawn or shovel my driveway. I got all kinds of crappy shit that I don't want to do myself that I would GLADLY pay someone some skimpy wage to do. The world needs ditch diggers too. Point is, the MMDL ain't no charity. They're not helping anybody. It's basically a fun club. Nobody needs to get paid to help run a fun club, you should just do it cause you want to.

So ABA, what DO you get paid to be the AD?

I agree in part with you on the first of the 2 posts.

If you're too lazy to get a job and want to sit on welfare and have kids, screw you. Welfare, AKA public assistance, is just that: ASSISTANCE. Not your lifeblood. Now granted there are those who will need it short term and that's fine, but that's not people who want to be taken care of for life by me and you either. A person who is going to college and getting help with that is what it's for, that person will soon get a job and be self sufficient, as well as paying taxes. In order to be on welfare in my eyes you should have to pass a drug test initially and randomly, be on birth control so you cannot have more children, and be forced to do 20 hours or more volunteer work a week. Like you said, come mow my lawn and prove you aren't just looking for a free ride.

I really won't talk about what I get paid. What I will say is, I could probably go work for the skimpy wage at Wendy's or BK and make more. Believe me, the other parts of the job you don't think about are what really suck. Try being on the way to the hospital at top speed to see a dying parent and having your phone ring off the hook about the league sometime.

In all seriousness, I DO have a heart for your family situation. Dealing with a sick, dying, or lost loved one is not a joking manner, and on a personal level, you DO have my sympathies. That being said, this really ISN'T the place to bring personal issues up. There's a lot of ball busting and callous remarks that I and others make here and I don't want that to be perceived as disrespectful to a tragic situation. I'm not THAT much of a complete asshole. So, honestly Chris, I am sorry for what you are going through in a non-dart related personal level. As much as I criticize your AD role, the MMDL, or any other dart related issue, please be assured that I don't really have any issues with you personally, or your private life.

Much appreciated. I mention that as an example of me saying "is this even worth it?" that night. Had to leave my match when I got a call that my father in law was just brought into ICU and not expected to see the sun rise, and then the stupid phone rings...and rings again..and again. Turned out there was a near fistfight about to erupt, meantime I'm driving 60 or more on the way to the hospital.

I guess I should clarify when I said "the other parts of the job that you don't think about..." was meant as that others don't think about, not you particularly.

Truthfully I'd guess the season prep before the first dart is thrown is 50 or so hours. I know that sounds a lot, but that's printing all my roster forms (since so many people still don't even print one online), getting to the capt's meeting an hour before, being there 3 hours, transporting all the stuff there (shirts and whatnot too). That happens twice obviously. Then I have to (among other things) group teams into divisions, sort by travel, write the actual schedule and number teams. All that has to go into the website as well, which even though a lot of players are in there I still have to look at every one of them and update as needed.

The part that really eats up the time is 5-10 minutes of calling a team and asking why they didn't show at the first meeting..then having to get an emailed roster or meet them somewhere. That takes very little time but when you consider that on average 30 or so teams don't show up, it adds up fast.

It doesn't happen to this extreme very often, but my first season as AD there was a fight at a match which saw one person spend a good amount of time at the hospital. I would guess easily I spent 5 hours on that issue alone calling everyone and such. I know that night I got home at 6 from my day job and didn't stop dealing with it till at least 9:30.

I make $1000 for a season. If i work an event i get $50. I get 35 bucks a meeting. I have figured that i spend well over 100 hrs in a season on the JOB that is the MMDL. If there wasnt some small reward, i would have quit by now, probably would never have got involved. My time is worth something. All of this money is public, you can find it all over the web if you look hard enough for it. Nothing at all to hide. The books are wide open too. Come to a meeting and any member that would want a look could have it. Transparent from front to back.

And.... you ask about the money, when we first got in, the league ran in the red, using the next season to cover its cost to some degree. For the last 2+ years we have been running black and slowly dispersing moneys to as much darts as possible from the singles tournaments to the ADO program that is totally free for any MMDL member. ITs a darts investment. The latter moneys go towards a return to dart tournaments, specifically the Witch City Open first and foremost. I honestly dont care that you call us out. Checks and balances got me involved in the league. There is nothing to hide, could we do better and reward everyone for everything? Maybe, but the people involved right now are pretty happy with what we are doing with the finances of the league.

First off, I get paid that same sum that Skiz does. I forgot to mention earlier that on any night league darts are played, even if it's a bye week for me or playoffs, I stay up till 1am and will take phone calls up until that time. The longest it takes me to reply is 10-15 minutes if I am playing or scoring a game, and then I call back immediately.

To expand on the tournament part of that..

If you look at the fact that you can enter a singles shoot for $10 and win as much as $500 for your work (depending on your division), that's a pretty good return. I can honestly say I bet we lose a good bit of money each tournament..and that's fine, we're doing something for the entire membership who wants to shoot in a tournament each season. My point being, it's not like we even cover expenses much less make any cash on the day.

Like Adam said, the $50 for an event is what I get. Working that event means in most cases you are there around 9AM and don't leave for 12 hours or more. Depending on the situation, sometimes we set up the night prior and that's even more time. The $50 pretty much covers my gas money unless it is a South Shore event, looking at the fact that they have been held in places like Beverly and Framingham, and one entry fee for me (which yes, I do not get comped for my entry fee and wouldn't want to either). Would you work 12 hours for $50?

Too easy. Too FUCKING EASY!!!

Too easy? Do you mean being on the board of MMDL is easy? If so run for the job, you may not even see me run against you.

Point is that while yes this isn't paying my mortgage every month and such it is still a job. You don't work for free, right?

It's TOO EASY to get you guys all riled up.

But more to your point, the MMDL isn't a JOB, it's an activity, a club, a recreational event that you do BY CHOICE, because of your love for the game and desire to help out and be involved, NOT because of a PAYCHECK. Like donating time at a soup kitchen, or helping out the commuinity in some sort of way. You guys act as if it's some grueling expeience that you are FORCED to do at a grossly underpaid wage. Come the fuck on! Ooooh, only $50 bucks plus my entry fee to run a tourney boo hoo! People go to those things all day for FREE, big deal! Paid for meetings? Huh? Getting paid for having a meeting to discuss the league? Wait a minute, isn't that your JOB to discuss the league? The GRAND you get for the season doesn't include going to meetings OR tourneys? That's EXTRA? What DOES $1000 get? Making a schedule? I did it with Suzanne for YEARS and never asked for a dime. Handling a few phone calls cause people are fighting or bitching? Here's how you handle that....You: "So, what's the problem?" Them: "Blah, Blah, Blah, Yada, Yada, Yada, Whine, Whine, Whine, Bitch, Bitch, Bitch" You: "OK, I'll look into it"...Click. Simple. Point is, the MMDL is NOT your JOB. A JOB is usually something you HAVE to go to, and HAVE to DO, with a BOSS, and reprocussions if you don't. And, with the exception of mine, they usually COMPLETELY SUCK. Pretty sure that if you asked , 95% of people would say they really don't like it, and would rather not do it. The MMDL doesn't fall into ANY of that. Nobody is MAKING you do it. Even though you get paid what I would consider a LOT of money for a 5 month season, to be involved in something that you love to do, and what tons of other people do for free, you still complain about how tough it is. Please enlighten me. HOW is it so TOUGH? What exactly is so incredibly hard and time consuming that $1000 PLUS meeting fees PLUS tourney fees isn't worth doing? I'm being honest here. WHAT EXACTLY do you people do that takes "100 hours" as Skiz says. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just am not aware of the enormous amount of work that goes on behind the scenes. So please, here's your chance, tell me what it is that takes up SO much of your time.

Haha. Not riled up at all, I enjoy it. Truthfully, I asked the same kinds of questions for a long time. Then I got involved when Suzanne was AD. Not just in the scheduling (which isn't to be taken lightly), but everything she did in a season.

The grouping of divisions that you're talking about is just one piece of it. I agree that isn't THAT much time, but then you have to number all the teams to make sure you don't put too many teams home the same week. That is a project right there. Then type the whole thing up on a spreadsheet, print it and stuff it.

Ok......AND......Go on....You have to print and stuff envelopes....ok...what else? With minimum wage at $7.25 an hour, just trying to figure out where the 138 hours comes from with a $1000 salary. And don't include meetings or tourneys, cause as you said, those are EXTRA.

3 hours of being at a capt's meeting..times 2. 6 hours

Sorting through the rosters to find out which teams did not come back from previous season/calling those teams..2-3 hours.

Field numerous callbacks about how to turn in a team late, roster changes prior to 2nd meeting..5-8 hours.

Grouping teams by division, travel, numbering, etc..8-10 hours.

Entering all the teams in the stat site..20-25 hours (no I'm not kidding, and I type over 80 wpm).

Get all the stuff printed, obtain match reports/rules/etc, stuff all the capt's kits: 3-4 hours. That sounds high but remember that's for close to if not slightly more than 140 teams.

There's approximately 50 hours of work when I leave the 2nd capt's meeting. The phone calls may not be very long calls, but when you make 25-30 phone calls the day after the meeting to start with and get at least half that number calling you back, the 3-5 minutes at a shot adds up FAST.

Not sure off the top of my head when it changed, but current MA minimum wage is $8 an hour. Better make sure you're not breaking the law paying your help (just kidding).

Mimimum wage for servers is just $2.63. Try living off that.

EyesOfTheWorld wrote:Mimimum wage for servers is just $2.63. Try living off that.

Maybe some day I could afford the double cardboard box on that LOL.

I've always wondered this: In a restaurant, I know waitresses make the $2-something an hour and have for a long time, therefore they depend on tips. If you have someone who is just a busboy/dishwasher I'm sure they get paid the regular wage.

For a bartender, what is the minimum/average wage? I am sure it isn't $2.63 an hour since most bartenders I know have taken some kind of course, and if I understand right are required to be TIPS certified. I'm guessing it isn't the $8/hr because a bartender is a tipped employee as well.

You forget that I have actually dealt on the phone with you personally. You are the only person I know who can turn a 3 minute phone call/question into a 15-20 minute conversation. You should tell people to either text or email you whenever possible. It will cut down on all the social and personal talk and keep it strictly business. Secondly, if you truly are devoting THAT much time to scheduling, you are doing it wrong. There's no way you should spend that much time on it. 8 HOURS on turning in a team late or roster changes? Are you kidding me? Text or E-mail the changes. boom, 5 seconds. 25 hours to enter 140 teams???? Jesus, looks like you could never be a secretrary. I bet I could get my wife to do it in less than 4 hours. You need to manage your time better.

Legally, you only need to pay a "tipped employee" $2.63/hr for their base salary. That INCLUDES bartenders. However, they have to make at least $8/hr after their tips are added to that. (which they pretty much always do). If their tips PLUS base are LESS than $8 then you must compesnsate them until it DOES equal $8. That being said, that's LEGALLY what you have to offer. Try getting someone to actually WORK for that and you have a totally different situation. Not gonna happen. We pay quadruple what normal severs make, but that's just us. Probably the reason that most of our staff has been there for OVER 20 years each.

EyesOfTheWorld wrote:You forget that I have actually dealt on the phone with you personally. You are the only person I know who can turn a 3 minute phone call/question into a 15-20 minute conversation. You should tell people to either text or email you whenever possible. It will cut down on all the social and personal talk and keep it strictly business. Secondly, if you truly are devoting THAT much time to scheduling, you are doing it wrong. There's no way you should spend that much time on it. 8 HOURS on turning in a team late or roster changes? Are you kidding me? Text or E-mail the changes. boom, 5 seconds. 25 hours to enter 140 teams???? Jesus, looks like you could never be a secretrary. I bet I could get my wife to do it in less than 4 hours. You need to manage your time better.

OK guilty on part 1 haha..and I usually prefer the text/email route at least for roster stuff, since it creates a paper trail of some kind in case I get thrown under the bus down the road.

Remember, those figures I posted are approximate. Clearly some things cannot be set. For instance, 10 no-show teams requires a lot less time versus 30 of them. Going with my example of 30, I have to cross off the teams from the last season sched that didn't show. Then call each one which is 3-5 min. For that kind of a call I want a fast turnaround of getting a roster so phone seems to work best. Then if the person emails a roster I still have to check it, print it, and send back a "got it all set" email. Again, 2-3 minutes but the volume of times that has to be done is what some forget.

The stat site, again that is a RANGE. In a perfect world your entire team returns, nobody needs a different shirt size than last time, everyone's information is identical. I still have to check all the information on the paper to the online record and update as needed. If I have to create a new team (as in, all new players), that's 1-2 minutes per person of filling in a new record and placing them on the team. 10-15 minutes for a new team no matter how fast I type. Remember too that the South is always back and forth with Boston for the biggest area. If anyone could fill in the entire thing I do on that site (which is way more than what you see, believe me) in 4 hours send them to me.

EyesOfTheWorld wrote:Legally, you only need to pay a "tipped employee" $2.63/hr for their base salary. That INCLUDES bartenders. However, they have to make at least $8/hr after their tips are added to that. (which they pretty much always do). If their tips PLUS base are LESS than $8 then you must compesnsate them until it DOES equal $8. That being said, that's LEGALLY what you have to offer. Try getting someone to actually WORK for that and you have a totally different situation. Not gonna happen. We pay quadruple what normal severs make, but that's just us. Probably the reason that most of our staff has been there for OVER 20 years each.

I knew there was something about the tips plus base and didn't know what or how, thanks for the lesson. And agreed, you get what you pay for. Pay minimum wage and you may not get the best of what's out there..clearly your strategy has paid off in the long run for customer service and employee loyalty both.